XGC Yoda
New member
Very well asid my friend
SIX DAYS IN FALLUJAH STIRRING CONTROVERSY
- Thread starter XGC Yoda
- Start date
Very well asid my friend
XGC OompaLoompa
New member
I apologize if I sound cutting. But how can this make a better future? You are talking about gamers, not politicians, not military men, not anything like that.
I apologize if that statement sounds offensive to my fellow gamers. But the statement you make goes on the assumption that all gamers are responsible and willing to learn from the events that this game potrays.
I understand that people want their story told. But publishing it as a game is not the way to go in my opinion. Because of the simple fact of desensitization, it's a game, it's not a historical tool, it's not something to teach, something to open ones eyes to, it's a game, it's entertainment. It's the reason gamers game, to escape their real life into the virtual.
And I come with another argument now, what if this game pans badly. What if its so bad that no one wants to play it, it then becomes nothing, it teaches nothing, it gives nothing.
This game is a Blood Game, it is trying to profit on the blood, sweat, tears of servicemen and women who still today have nightmares of the hell that Fallujah was, or didn't come out alive from. I never experienced it, I freely admit I am not military. And this next statement might appear to be insulting, and I apologize, but I've read enough (I know, reading and experiencing are too different things) to get a feeling as to exactly how it was over there just from the books, firsthand accounts, and pictures from there.
Now trying to put it into a game, you can't possibly convey what it was like over there virtually, yet this game wants to promote itself as something that will convey the experiences there. It just isn't right, and it cheapens the horrors that emanated from that hell by making it virtual. It's what it's done to World War II, it's desensitized us to the suffering and death that ensued. To me, Call of Duty and it's ilk are nothing more than games set within a fictional account as a sidenote to actual historical events.
I'm sorry for becoming long-winded, but I just can't wrap my mind around this entire idea, it just is too soon for us to immediately start getting people to become desensitized even more to the events going on in Iraq now. Not when we are still over there, still fighting, and still dying. What's next, are they going to start publishing games of what happened in Afghanistan as well? I mean, once you start this slippery slope, where is it going to end?
CAPOS SNOW
New member
1. thank you for letting me know how every gamer feels. I guess when i play it i will not "as you said" "give two ****s about the people it represents".
Don't try to tell me what other people feel.
2. Tamte and Benito "president &director of atomic games" believe players will still find the game compelling. One reason revolves around the stories told in the game. More than a dozen Marines are featured in documentary-style video interviews that are interspersed with the game's action. The Marines reappear in the game itself, doing pretty much what they did during the war. One tells the story of how he furiously wrote a letter to his wife and begged a chaplain to give it to her if he died. Another, Eddie Garcia (pictured above), talks about how his right leg was shredded in a mortar attack, and how he suffered survivor's guilt after he was taken out of combat. Their actions are recreated in the game as players encounter the soldiers' avatars.
3. One is Mike Ergo, who was in a Marine infantry battalion during the battle in Fallouja and is a consultant on the game. "Video games can communicate the intensity and the gravity of war to an audience who wouldn’t necessarily be watching the History Channel or reading about this in the classroom,” said Ergo, now 26 and a junior at the University of California at Berkeley. “In an age when everyone’s always online or playing games, people’s imaginations aren’t what they were, sadly. For this group, books may not convey the same level of intensity and chaos of war that a game can.”
"just a side note. I care about historical, and current events"
if you are so against people profiting from "warm blood" what do you think about all the T.V. shows " Ex. over there on FX", and movies " In the valley of Elijah, lions for lambs, and Stop-loss" that are based around the war in Iraq? Un-American? Too soon? better tell hollywood, and not just the gaming industry.
"War brings prosperity to the stock gamblers on Wall Street. The stock brokers
would not, of course, go to war, because the very object they have in bringing on
war is profit.... They will be concealing in their palatial offices on Wall Street, sit
ting behind mahogany desks, covered with clipped coupons -- coupons dyed in the
lifeblood of their fellow man."
SENATOR GEORGE W. NORRIS ( 1917)
"This Mexican war -- a perfect outrage upon every principle of both civilization and
Christianity -- was got up, and is kept up, mainly by these leaches, so that they may
glut themselves on the spoils. Oh, my countrymen, be intreated to tolerate neither
these evils nor this accursed war any longer!"
AMERICAN PHRENOLOGICAL JOURNAL ( NOVEMBER 1847)
"just some quotes of supposed un-american things that just so happens were said about americans"
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XGC OompaLoompa
New member
1. Rezlient, you know perfectly well that I exaggerated on the point of all gamers, cuz if I really meant that statement, then I wouldn't have cared. Fact is, I've done a bit of research after playing some games just because I kinda take interest in history. To me, it seems like a ****ton of players nowadays are little kids, uncaring teens, or immature adults who take gaming as entertainment and entertainment only, and are quite abusive of that luxury that they do get, treating fellow man like garbage and whatnot.
2. I have twenty dollars here saying that there will be a skip option in those videos. You don't want to turn off your gaming base and "educate" them, if they wanted education they'd read a book or watch a program.
3. See previous statements about attitude of gamers in my estimation. Gamers play games for entertainment, not education, it's why you see more action games than education games. And games never have conveyed a level of desperation, terror, and sheer bloodshed a battle could be. All you get in those "battles" are lots of explosions, you mowing down a crapton of soldiers that seem to suffer through Stormtrooper Syndrome all the while you are standing out in the open or somehow behind cover yet they neglect it. All these "historical combat" games only offer the template time again and that's it, if they wanted to make it like "real combat" it'd be almost every single time a one hitta quitta, but now that wouldn't be "fair" to the gamer.
In conclusion, because games are a fantasy, you cannot convey anything about what the real life experiences of someone who went through things like Fallujah, as much as they want us to experience it, the game will be lost in translation as it goes. It's not fair to the people that lost their lives, that their sacrifice was glorified by a game.
Oh, and for the record, most of those "shows" base on the "War in Iraq" I find absolutely repugnant to begin with, Hollywood has been completely out of touch for years now, why expect them to actually care?
2. I have twenty dollars here saying that there will be a skip option in those videos. You don't want to turn off your gaming base and "educate" them, if they wanted education they'd read a book or watch a program.
3. See previous statements about attitude of gamers in my estimation. Gamers play games for entertainment, not education, it's why you see more action games than education games. And games never have conveyed a level of desperation, terror, and sheer bloodshed a battle could be. All you get in those "battles" are lots of explosions, you mowing down a crapton of soldiers that seem to suffer through Stormtrooper Syndrome all the while you are standing out in the open or somehow behind cover yet they neglect it. All these "historical combat" games only offer the template time again and that's it, if they wanted to make it like "real combat" it'd be almost every single time a one hitta quitta, but now that wouldn't be "fair" to the gamer.
In conclusion, because games are a fantasy, you cannot convey anything about what the real life experiences of someone who went through things like Fallujah, as much as they want us to experience it, the game will be lost in translation as it goes. It's not fair to the people that lost their lives, that their sacrifice was glorified by a game.
Oh, and for the record, most of those "shows" base on the "War in Iraq" I find absolutely repugnant to begin with, Hollywood has been completely out of touch for years now, why expect them to actually care?
CAPOS SNOW
New member
We put by the way Oompa.
the hollywood statement was more for yoda, and the anti-american gaining from warm blood comment. if one could do something to gain from a war then an american has probably tried it. "I wonder how those oil fields are doing in Iraq these days?"
Now to talk about your comment about gamers.
people are getting on gaming systems more and more. what better way to teach them about worldly events than to incorporate it into what is no longer just a small group of people playing Tecmo bowl in the basement after their parents have gone to bed, but a wide range of people that network thru gaming.
the hollywood statement was more for yoda, and the anti-american gaining from warm blood comment. if one could do something to gain from a war then an american has probably tried it. "I wonder how those oil fields are doing in Iraq these days?"
Now to talk about your comment about gamers.
people are getting on gaming systems more and more. what better way to teach them about worldly events than to incorporate it into what is no longer just a small group of people playing Tecmo bowl in the basement after their parents have gone to bed, but a wide range of people that network thru gaming.
XGC Yoda
New member
If you are so against people profiting from "warm blood" what do you think about all the T.V. shows " Ex. over there on FX", and movies " In the valley of Elijah, lions for lambs, and Stop-loss" that are based around the war in Iraq? Un-American? Too soon? better tell hollywood, and not just the gaming industry.
"War brings prosperity to the stock gamblers on Wall Street. The stock brokers
would not, of course, go to war, because the very object they have in bringing on
war is profit.... They will be concealing in their palatial offices on Wall Street, sit
ting behind mahogany desks, covered with clipped coupons -- coupons dyed in the
lifeblood of their fellow man."
SENATOR GEORGE W. NORRIS ( 1917)
"This Mexican war -- a perfect outrage upon every principle of both civilization and
Christianity -- was got up, and is kept up, mainly by these leaches, so that they may
glut themselves on the spoils. Oh, my countrymen, be intreated to tolerate neither
these evils nor this accursed war any longer!"
AMERICAN PHRENOLOGICAL JOURNAL ( NOVEMBER 1847)
"just some quotes of supposed un-american things that just so happens were said about americans"[/QUOTE]
Goerge W. Norris was the leader of the Progressive and Liberal causes in congress. His role as a republican leader makes him a very great American. Maybe you should read his quote and have daddy explain it to you. This quote is in regards to the profits of war, but more importantly it does not have anything to do with the subject we speak of. We are talking about whether we should draw the line as Americans when it comes to the production of a game that shows a recent blood bath. It is not a matter of stopping the gaming market, because they have a right and freedom to do this. It is more a question of should we as Americans stand by and let the gaming market bring back memories of there beloved son or daughter that died for the sake of profit? Stop bringing up the Iraq war in general and give me a straight answer on the current topic at hand.
Secondly the second quote was a nice find, and it gives a good perspective on the way the media has exploited every war. Even with freedoms there are still responsibility, and it would seem that you support the media doing this because you are to dense to understand the people it will hurt along the way. Regardless of how many soldiers support it, there are those that don't. They don't want a game or movie at this time that would cause memories of there fallen friends.
"War brings prosperity to the stock gamblers on Wall Street. The stock brokers
would not, of course, go to war, because the very object they have in bringing on
war is profit.... They will be concealing in their palatial offices on Wall Street, sit
ting behind mahogany desks, covered with clipped coupons -- coupons dyed in the
lifeblood of their fellow man."
SENATOR GEORGE W. NORRIS ( 1917)
"This Mexican war -- a perfect outrage upon every principle of both civilization and
Christianity -- was got up, and is kept up, mainly by these leaches, so that they may
glut themselves on the spoils. Oh, my countrymen, be intreated to tolerate neither
these evils nor this accursed war any longer!"
AMERICAN PHRENOLOGICAL JOURNAL ( NOVEMBER 1847)
"just some quotes of supposed un-american things that just so happens were said about americans"[/QUOTE]
Goerge W. Norris was the leader of the Progressive and Liberal causes in congress. His role as a republican leader makes him a very great American. Maybe you should read his quote and have daddy explain it to you. This quote is in regards to the profits of war, but more importantly it does not have anything to do with the subject we speak of. We are talking about whether we should draw the line as Americans when it comes to the production of a game that shows a recent blood bath. It is not a matter of stopping the gaming market, because they have a right and freedom to do this. It is more a question of should we as Americans stand by and let the gaming market bring back memories of there beloved son or daughter that died for the sake of profit? Stop bringing up the Iraq war in general and give me a straight answer on the current topic at hand.
Secondly the second quote was a nice find, and it gives a good perspective on the way the media has exploited every war. Even with freedoms there are still responsibility, and it would seem that you support the media doing this because you are to dense to understand the people it will hurt along the way. Regardless of how many soldiers support it, there are those that don't. They don't want a game or movie at this time that would cause memories of there fallen friends.
CAPOS SNOW
New member
My daddy told me that the first quote is talking about americans on wall street war profiteering. which directly negates your comment about it being un-American to make a profit on the loss of others. Second I do not support the media, but i do support the 1st amendment. Freedom of speech. And last but not least, buck up champ! this is a debate not an argument
SYN Jerriel
New member
I still think that banning a game just cuz people cant deal with the reality of whats going on and whats happening to people is a stupid reason
knowledge is strength
knowledge is strength
XGC Yoda
New member
It is unamerican to profit on the death of men and woman who fought for you to keep your freedoms. I also support the 1st amendment, and I never suggested anything else. Thirdly what is this champ krap? I think children should be seen and not heard Rez, so if you would like to continue this debate then lets go, but in truth when it comes to debates, it's always a matter of opinion so there is no end to a debate.
XGC Yoda
New member
Do you think of anyone but yourself? You can't ban something just because you don't like it. Konami has a right to make this game, but what were asking is that they don't because it exploits to bloodshed of our fallen heroes for there personal gain. The death of the men and woman at Fallujah should be honored, not trample on by the media. Think about the families of these fallen heroes, how would they feel about this?
CAPOS SNOW
New member
- So if Americans are being un-american, does that make the un-americans american?
- Doesnt that seen and not heard comment directly contradict your sentence about the first amendment?
~Just some thoughts to ponder on~
SYN Jerriel
New member
Blackhawk down
Saving Private ryan
schindler's list
the boy with the striped Pajamas
ALL of these movies have been "exploits" of war and i have never heard of people ( alot of people) opposing these movies.
Saving Private ryan
schindler's list
the boy with the striped Pajamas
ALL of these movies have been "exploits" of war and i have never heard of people ( alot of people) opposing these movies.
XGC Dhale101
New member
true true but maybe its because its interactive which a movie is not hmmmm
SYN Jerriel
New member
A movie is Interactive you have to sit and watch teh 1- 1 1/2 hour long movie
What do you do with video games?
Sit and watch images go by.
What do you do with video games?
Sit and watch images go by.
XGC Dhale101
New member
but in a way you live it .a movie you dont control what happens. a game you do and about this game most War Movies and Games are relseaed way after the war the game maker should of let our troops pull out of Iraq b4 thinkin about making this game
SYN Jerriel
New member
Troops have already went to the game designers ASKING for them to make a game not the other way around
XGC ZUES XS
Moderator
Until you lay your life on the line for the troupe next to you. Lose friends, brothers or sisters. None of you will understand. Until your in some foreign land surrounded by people that want to kill you, not knowing who exactly the enemy is... you will not understand. I would not want anyone to live vicariously through a game, the things that I have seen and been through. I am sure that many other service members would feel the same way. This is why I do not play COD4 very much. To each there own opinion. But until you experience some things first hand, You will not know.
XGC Dhale101
New member
Oh i understand what it feels like but what i am thinking is you guys misunderstood my point Example Black hawk down was made after the battle when all the troops were pulled out the thing with iraq is there still is troops in there i have mix feeling about the game i think its a little messed up GIs are still having probs after that battle so yea
XGC Halcyon
New member
of course American GI's are having problems. everyday they face losses of thier comrades. and with regards to knowledge being power, sometimes knowlege can be mixed with fiction.
